Revelation 19:1 and the Great Multitude -r

After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Hallelujah! Salvation, glory, and power belong to our God: — Revelation 19:1.

Does this mean that the “great multitude” spoken of in Revelation 19:1 are being pictured in heaven where God’s throne is, and where the angels are always able to “see” the fact of God? (Psalm 11:14; Matthew 18:10) No, for the word “heaven” in the Bible does not always mean such. The context of Revelation 19:1 shows that this “great multitude”, whoever they are, are in this “heaven” when Babylon the Great is destroyed, thus before or at the full end of this age. If “heaven” here refers to the heavens where God’s throne is, then to fit this scenario the great multitude would need to be resurrected to a spirit life sometime before or immediately after the destruction of Babylon the Great, before Satan is abyssed, and also that Babylon the Great would evidently have to be in heaven where God’s throne is before the end of the age, and where the angels see the face of Yahweh. We find no scriptural support for such ideas. Therefore the conclusion is that the words “in heaven” refer to their religious standing in the figurative ecclesiastical heavens, not the heavens where God’s throne is.

The present “heaven” that now is, which relates to the authoritarian religious elements of mankind, however, is to pass away. (Revelation 21:1; 2 Peter 3:7,12) This heaven that is to pass away is not the heaven where God’s throne is, since God’s dwelling place will never pass away; thus the heavens that passes away is evidently the sectarian religious elements amongst mankind here on earth that seek to control mankind with their religious authority. While this great multitude is yet among the sectarianism of Babylon the Great, they have consecrated themselves to God. In this position, many Christians today of many diferent denominations, nations and tribes, are now proclaiming their salvation in Christ, although as yet they are still being hindered by mankind’s sectarian influences. Thus, they are still to a great degree being deceived by the sectarianism that exists all around them (Revelation 13:14); it is only after this sectarianism is destroyed in the great tribulation and Satan is abyssed, that they will be able to see beyond the deceptions of Satan (Revelation 12:9; 13:14), and then the Lamb will lead them to the waters of life, which Isaiah 25 shows will be on the earth, not in heaven where God’s throne is. — Isaiah 25:6-8; Revelation 7:14-17; 20:1-3.

See also:
The Great Multitude

Revelation 7:9-17 – The Great Multitude (r-blogger)

Revelation 7: The 144,000 and the Twelve Tribes (r-blogger)

[Bibles, Bible-Related Books and Other Items]
[The Divine Plan of the Ages – An Illustrated Edition]
[Hebrew/Greek Key Word Study Bible]


Revelation 7:1 After this, I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth, or on the sea, or on any tree.
Revelation 7:2 I saw another angel ascend from the sunrise, having the seal of the living God. He cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was given to harm the earth and the sea,
Revelation 7:3 saying, “Don’t harm the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, until we have sealed the bondservants of our God on their foreheads!”
Revelation 7:4 I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:
Revelation 7:5 Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand, Of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, Of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
Revelatio 7:6 Of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, Of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, Of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
Revelation 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, Of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, Of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
Revelation 7:8 Of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, Of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. — World English.

It is claimed by many that the twelve tribes of Revelation refer to the natural Jews, the children of Israel. These overlook the symbolism being employed in the verses, and look at the words “tribe” as speaking, not symbolically, but literally, reference to tribes of natural Israel, and thus they claim that the 144,000 are all natural Jews.

However, we need to remember that the visions that John saw are highly symbolic. The four corners of the earth are symbolic; the four winds are symbolic; the earth, sea and trees spoken of are all symbolic. The four angels are also probably symbolic of the influences of the destructive forces that are to come upon the symbolic earth, the sea and the trees.

Additionally, we should note that the twelves tribes that John saw are no where listed as such in the Old Testament. Each tribe listed in Revelation 7, we believe, has symbolic meaning. Revelation 7 and 14 is not speaking of the twelve tribes after the flesh (1 Corinthians 10:18), but rather these tribes are symbolic of the various parts of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:12-26), the Israel of faith. Those sealed out of the twelve tribes stand [rule as kings] on Mt. Zion in heaven with the Lamb. — Revelation 14:1.

We will note that there are some Bible Students who believe that the number 144,000 is not to be taken literally; that it is only symbolic. We cannot be dogmatic that there will be literally only 144,000 to be sealed out of the twelve tribes, but we believe that, since this is spoken of in relation to two other groups, the twelve tribes and the great multitude, that this number is indeed literal, and yet it is also symbolic.

Nevertheless, Romans 11:25 speaks of the blindness to Israel continuing until the “fullness [Greek, pleroma, plenitude] of the Gentiles has come in.” “Fullness” does not mean that absolutely all Gentiles must be converted before the blindness is removed from Israel. “Fullness” means the full amount related to filling up what is being spoken of; it refers to all that is needed for the purpose being spoken of. In this connection, it is speaking of filling “the election” (Romans 11:7), the symbolic grafting of Gentiles (symbolic wild olive branches) into the symbolic olive tree of God. (Romans 11:17) The olive tree of God does not mean the Law Covenant, as some have assumed. If it were the Law Covenant that the Gentiles were being drafted into, then this would mean that the Gentiles would become cursed with the Jew under the Law. “For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse. For it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who doesn’t continue in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them.'” (Galatians 3:10) Rather, Paul speaks in Galatians 3:16 of the promises spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The covenant made with Abraham is often referred to as the Abrahamic Covenant. The Law Covenant came 430 years later (Galatians 3:17), but does not annul the earlier covenant with Abraham. Jesus claimed this covenant for himself, as he spoke to his disciples: ” I, covenant unto you – as my Father hath covenanted unto me – a kingdom.” (Luke 22:29) From Galatians 3:16, we can see that the covenant that Jesus refers to, and which he extends to his followers, is the covenant as the seed of Abraham. This agrees with what Paul wrote in Galatians 3:29: “If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to promise.” All who belong to Christ are God’s sons, and are thus heirs. (Galatians 3:26) However, not all the heirs as the seed of Abraham become joint-heirs with Christ. It is out of this antitypical twelve tribes that the joint-heirs are sealed. If Romans 11:25 is speaking a limited number, it would have be related, not to the antitypical twelve tribes as a whole, but rather to the sealing of the 144,000 out those twelve tribes. In other words, the purpose of the “election” is to obtain the joint-heirs with Christ; when that purpose is fulfilled, once the 144,000 are sealed, then some time after that the blindness of Israel would be lifted. This would take us into the age to come, after Satan is abyssed so that he will not be able to deceive the heathen. (Revelation 20:1-3) We do not believe that Israel will be enlightened until after Satan — the god of this age — is will no longer be around bring blindness. (2 Corinthians 4:4) Yahweh says concerning Israel in that age to come: “I will remember my covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish to you an everlasting covenant. Then shall you remember your ways, and be ashamed, when you shall receive your sisters, your elder [sisters] and your younger; and I will give them to you for daughters, but not by your [Law] covenant. I will establish my [new] covenant with you; and you shall know that I am Yahweh; that you may remember, and be confounded, and never open your mouth any more, because of your shame, when I have forgiven you all that you have done, says the Lord Yahweh.” — Ezekiel 16:60-63.

The sealing out of the twelve symbolic tribes is not the same sealing that is spoken of in 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13; 4:30. All of the sons of God receive the sealing of the holy spirit, the promise related to the day of redemption that is yet to come. All the sons of God are thus heirs of God, and, except for those of the great multitude*, all are of the antitypical twelve tribes of Israel, but not all who make up the twelve tribes become joint-heirs with Christ. One can be a joint-heir with Christ, only “if” indeed one “suffers with him.” (Romans 8:17) The word “suffer” in Romans 8:17 is rendered from the Greek, “Sumpascho,” Strong’s #4841. Three words in Romans 8:17 all begin with forms of the the Greek prefix “Sun,” meaning “jointly with.” The first is usually translated as “joint-heirs,” the second is rendered “suffer with,” and the third is rendered “glorified with.” Nevertheless, in the Greek, Paul lines the three words, using the same prefix for all, evidently to show a parallel in their meanings. All who are led by God’s spirit are sons and heirs of God. However, to become heirs jointly with Christ, one must jointly suffer, in order to be jointly glorified.

And thus, the 144,000 sealed out the twelve tribes are said to stand with Jesus on Mt. Zion. (Revelation 14:1) The typical Mt. Zion came to used representatively of the holy city Jerusalem, the capital of the whole of Israel, especially Moriah and the temple. — Psalm 2:6; 9:11; 74:2; Isaiah 1:8; Joel 2:23.
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*We should note that in the type, the mixed multitude (Exodus 12:13) who came out of Egypt with Israel also blended in with and became counted as part of the twelve tribes; they did not continue to remain separate from the twelve tribes.

Much that we read in the Old Testament is used as shadows, types, of that which was to come. (Romans 5:14; 1 Corinthians 10:6,11; Galatians 4:24; Colossians 2:17; Hebrews 8:5; Hebrews 9:24; Hebrews 10:1) In the New Testament, we come to the realities — the antitypes — represented by the typical of the Old Testament. Mt. Zion and the New Jerusalem represent the capital of God’s kingdom, as though coming down out of heaven, cut out without hands, to extend its rule over the whole earth. — Daniel 2:34,44,45; Revelation 21:1-5.

Thus seen, while many Bible Students only see two classes in Revelation 7, we see three classes: (1) The twelve tribes (2) those sealed out of the twelve tribes, and (3) the great multitude.

We will also say that most often when Bible Students speak of the “seed of Abraham,” they seem to limit that seed to the 144,000, as they usually do with the word “church.” Many seem to fail to distinguish between the “heirs” and the “joint-heirs.” We might hear someone declare himself or others to be “joint-heirs” with Christ,  evidently without realizing that such a declaration would be the same as saying, “I/We have obtained the perfection — the mark of the prize of the high calling,” or “I have overcome, and can no longer be harmed by the second death.” — Philippians 2:12-14; Revelation 2:11.

Many Bible Students, by tradition, seem to take the view that one is first counted as being of the 144,000 and then, if they fail to retain (rather than obtain or attain) the prize, then they become of the “great company” class, and thus lose the prize they once had. (Philippians 3:11-14) This, we believe, is almost the opposite of what the scriptures actually say.

Our conclusions is that, in general, throughout the gospel age, those who believe are first placed in the general “Israel” class, as being of one of the symbolic twelve tribes, and then, if he “attains” the mark of the prize, he becomes of the 144,000 joint-heirs. The “great company” class, we believe, are those who consecrate as what Brother Russell called those who ‘consecrate between the ages‘*, and thus they are pictured as coming “out of” the great tribulation, entering into the age to come when Satan will have been abyssed.

Brother Russell assumed that those consecrating between the ages would not be spirit-begotten, since he still retained the idea that spirit-begotten meant that one had sacrificed his humanity, and had become begotten to the spiritual body in the resurrection. We disagree with Russell’s understanding of what it means to be spirit-begotten, since, among other things, the scriptures state that Jesus was begotten of the spirit when he became flesh, a human, not a spirit being. — Matthew 1:20; See our study: “Born of the Spirit“..

The claim of many is that when one is spirit-begotten, he is no longer on the earthly plane, but, as a new creation, he is a son of God on the heavenly plane of life. Actually, the expression “spirit-begotten” does not appear in the scriptures, but we do find the expression “born of spirit”, which can also be rendered “begotten of the spirit”. We also find the expressions “born of water” and “born again (anew)”. (John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:3) Does being “born of the spirit” mean that one is born/begotten to the level of being a spirit being? If so, does being born of water mean that one is born/begotten to being a water being? When Jesus was begotten of spirit in the womb of Mary, was he begotten as a spirit being, or a human being? (Matthew 1:20) Why is there an emphasis in the scriptures on “again/anew”? Why does one have to be born “again/anew”?

We believe that being begotten of the spirit simply means that one is begotten as a new creature, a seed, a grain, firstly reckoned on the earthly plane, being a new creation equal to what Adam was before Adam sinned. Adam was incorrupt morally, but he was corruptible. So with the new creation; the seed, the grain planted is sown incorrupt, but corruptible, morally speaking. Adam could have progressed from being corruptible to being incorruptible, morally speaking, had he developed a character that could not have been corrupted. Likewise, each new creature in Christ is incorrupt, yet corruptible, until he has developed an incorruptible character.

For the new creature there are two types of sin: sin that is attributable to the fallen condition of the mind and flesh, and the sin of the new creature himself. There is no ransom sacrifice to be offered if the new creature sins. If the new creature himself sins, then all that would be left would be second death for the new creature. Once the new creature has fully developed a crystalized will against sin, then he has fully overcome, he has proven himself incorruptible, and the second death can no longer harm that person. (Revelation 2:11) Such will have attained the goal of the prize of the high calling. And yet, it is obvious that very few Christians ever obtain the level of perfection that is expressed in that goal while living in this present age.

See our studies:

With What Body Shall We Be Raised?

The Manner of the Resurrection

However, being a participant in the high calling does not mean that one has already received a crown of joint-heirship; being a participant in the high calling does not mean, that having been given joint-heirship, if he fails, he looses that crown of joint-heirship. The scriptures, taken together, tell us that one is counted first as a son, as was Adam (Luke 3:38), on the human level, and as a son, also as an heir of God, on the human level. The one consecrated is not first counted as a joint-heir. Such would mean that having already obtained the prize of the high calling, he would then stand the possibility of losing that prize. The scriptures do not present the matter in such a manner.

All who come to Christ are first made sons, as Adam was a son. (Luke 3:38)  The ransom sacrifice does not bring us to life in heaven, but rather it places us as Adam was before Adam sinned, with life on earth. Being made alive, they are sons, and if sons, they are also heirs, for “if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” The condition for heirship is to belong to Christ. (Galatians 3:29) “The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ if it so be that we joint-suffer [Strong’s 4841, sumpascho, “to experience pain jointly or of the same kind (spec. persecution; to ‘sympathize’)”] with him, that we may be also joint-glorified [Strong’s 4888, sunarmologeo, “to exalt to dignity in company with”] together.” (See Note #12) The “joint-heirs” are first “heirs” before they become “joint-heirs.” The condition for “joint-heirship” is (different than the condition for heirship) to be joint-sufferers with Christ: “if so be that we joint-suffer with him.” (Romans 8:16,17) The heirs in general are reckoned alive, “new creatures” in Christ Jesus, but only on the human plane. This is the first plane of life for all the Israel after the spirit, the twelve tribes spoken of in Revelation 7. — 1 Corinthians 10:18 (“Israel after the flesh” implies the existence of an Israel after the spirit); Galatians 6:15,16.

See our studies on The Ransom for All and  Born of the Spirit.

Thus, we believe that being begotten of the spirit first places one — as a new creature — on the plane of Adam, who was a son of God before Adam sinned — and with the earthly heirship as a son as Adam would have had it had he remained faithful (Luke 3:38; Romans 8:17; Galatians 3:29), and after that, if one completes the sacrifice by attaining the mark of the prize, then he becomes placed on the level of joint-heirship with Christ. As a result, that which is first accounted to the seed — the grain — (1 Corinthians 15:36-38) begotten of the spirit is the earthy, the physical body, the glory of the sinless terrestrial body (1 Corinthians 15:40; Psalm 8:5; Romans 3:23; Hebrews 2:7), not the heavenly, the spiritual body, the glory of the celestial body. (1 Corinthians 15:45) If and when the new creature is brought to perfection, incorruptibility, as a human, then that humanity is at the point that it can be sacrificed, (just as Jesus sacrificed his incorruptible humanity*), and thus one is sealed out of the twelve tribes at large and counted as one of the 144,000.
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*One should note that Jesus did not just sacrifice his sinless flesh, he sacrificed what he attained, incorruption on the human level. Unlike Adam, Jesus, as a human, brought himself to perfection, to the point of proving himself loyal beyond any shadow of a doubt. Thus, it is due to his being faithful while in the days of his flesh, that he brought life and incorruption (incorruptibility) to light. (2 Timothy 1:10) This he did by his continued, unfailing, obedience. It was this human life, wherein he had to put on incorruption, that he offered as a sacrifice. The sacrifice of the 144,000 would have to be of the same sort, that is, not just sinless human life, but human life that had proven itself incorruptible (counted as such due to perfection of the new creature’s faith, love and hope, proving oneself steadfast, incorruptible, unshakable, immovable, in these — 1 Corinthians 3:13; Ephesians 3:17; Philippians 3:12; Colossians 1:28; 1 Thessalonians 3:10; 1 Timothy 1:5,6; Hebrews 6:1; James 1:3,4; 1 Peter 1:6,7; 5:9,10; 1 John 4:18).

Once one gets the proper setting of what being born of the spirit means, we can see that it is not related to being first assigned a joint-heirship and then the possibility of loosing that joint-heirship,  then we can see that there could be tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, today who are begotten of the spirit, who will never receive a heavenly body in the resurrection.

We, indeed, do believe that we have today tens of thousands of brothers and sisters who are called under the general call of the high calling, but who will never attain the goal of the prize of joint-heirship, and that many of them will indeed prove to be of the great multitude who “come out of the great tribulation”. We do not believe that it will become evident exactly who the “great multitude” are until after the great tribulation is over and they are recognized as such after Satan’s sun will no longer hinder them from the true light. It is not important for us to know whether this or that brother/sister is of the great multitude or not.

Will the great multitude be physically separated into a group or movement before the great tribulation is over? Probably not, although we believe a small number who will prove to be of the great multitude are probably now associating with the Bible Students. The problem we see with the idea of getting people out their churches to join with the Bible Students is that this very teaching has led to a sectarian view amongst the Bible Students. Thus, most the Bible Students movement itself has come to be viewed by many, even by many Bible Students as though it were a sectarian group or denomination (of a name, thus “nominal”). All sectarianism will eventually be done away with, whether it be amongst what many call the nominal church or amongst the Bible Students. On the other hand, with the destruction of the Babylonish systems, we believe that it is possible that those ones who are begotten of the spirit that were still in those systems may become more manifest, and could possibly, in a loose association, seek each other out even before the end of the great tribulation. But we do not expect the manifestation of who will be be represented as of the 144,000, the twelve tribes, or the great multitude to take place until after Satan is abyssed.

One prophecy we referred to above says that “Then they cry to Yahweh in their trouble.” (Psalm 107:28) This is during, not after, the great tribulation. The scriptures do not reveal the details of how these prophecies will be fulfilled, so much of what we or anyone else might say is speculative, to say the least. We do know that God can cause great changes rather rapidly, or that He might consider to be a short time may seem to be a long time to us.

We should not, however, droop our hands with laxity so as to neglect preaching the Gospel (Good News) of the kingdom (Matthew 24:14), thinking that such work is over, etc., based on there being a limited number crowns for joint-heirship. There are, we believe, thousands of consecrated Christians in what many call the “nominal” churches who may yet wish to learn about the ransom for all, the coming blessings of the kingdom, etc. Such will not only need to be “witnessed” to, but their interest will have to be nurtured to produce growth, thus follow-up should be supplied. They will need to be taught — step by step — concerning who Jesus and his God are, the ransom, the resurrection hope for both the church and the world, the judgment day and God’s kingdom, as well as nurturing in producing the fruit of the spirit, etc. Again, while the Studies in the Scriptures may be helpful along this line, at the same time we believe that the viewpoint concerning “born of the spirit” that is presented therein, which would limit the number who could be “born of the spirit”, would be a hindrance, both to the teacher as well as to the student.  Additionally, the present views of the majority of the Bible Students would seem to hinder such a work. Therefore, the Restoration Light studies would probably of greater benefit in reaching such ones than the more traditional writings often distributed by the Bible Students. Perhaps Yahweh will bring forth someone with the abilities and wisdom to take the lead in such a work, but we will have to wait and see.

Related Studies:

The Great Multitude

The Manner of the Resurrection

The One Hope

The World’s Judgment Day

The Parousia, the Seventh Trumpet and the Harvest

Works of the Second Advent (Links)

This page has links to articles that appeared in “The Herald of Christ’s Kingdom,” May/June 2009 issue; we do not necessarily agree with all conclusions given by the authors:

Theme: Works of the Second Advent


In the Beginning (Works of the Second Advent-Introduction)

Audio MP3

Completing the Church
Audio MP3

Jesus is like a bridegroom who comes to take his bride to her new home. Titus 2:13; Psalm 46; Matthew 25:1-13;  Luke 12:35-53;  Daniel 12:12; Revelation 3:20;

The Restoration of Israel
Audio MP3

Israel’s 1,845 years of disfavor ended in A.D. 1878.

Smiting the Nations
Audio MP3
It is not just the nations; the Dragon, Beast, and False Prophet are destroyed as well.

Three Angels
Audio MP3
Christendom is judged—the faithful leave her.

Alive and Remain
Audio MP3
Resurrecting the saints: a verse-by-verse study of 1 Thessalonians 4, verses 13 to 18.

The General Resurrection
Audio MP3
Everyone, both good and bad, will be resurrected.

The Ancient Worthies in the
Millennial Kingdom

Audio MP3
The faithful ones of old will become the kingdom’s visible representatives.

Highway of Holiness
Audio MP3
Isaiah chapter 35 describes a way by which all mankind will be able to reach perfection.

Poems and Short Features

A Canaan on Earth
Audio MP3

The Beginning
Audio MP3

Divine Revelation
Audio MP3

Forgiveness of Sins
Audio MP3

Spring—Life Anew
Audio MP3


Some Helpful Books:

The keys of Revelation: Jesus testimony — (By Frank Shallieu) We do not necessarily agree with all of the author’s conclusions, but we have found this work to be helpful in our studies of the book of Revelation.

The Emphasized Bible * Canada * United Kingdom – (by Joseph Bryant Rotherham) This Bible translation is acclaimed by many to be the best English translation available.